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How to Talk to People About Covid–or Anything–2

I use debaters as education opportunities. If anyone else is listening, watching and lurking, I engage, stick to facts, provide the puzzle pieces and let them put the picture together (the conclusion).

I try never to become emotionally upset or offended, no matter what they say. Back to facts. I can stay things that people will never have an opportunity to hear in any other context. It will make them think. Use names, dates, places. Cite sources, authors, documentaries, publishers. Bedazzle them with details. Stick to facts.

“Last year more people died according to the WHO of flu than have died this year of covid. No lockdowns then. Why not?”

“The CDC changed the protocols for reporting covid on death certificates in April. But not for any other disease. Why is that? It affected the death statistics, making covid much easier to be reported as #1 cause of death. I read this on Children’s Health Defense from Robert F Kennedy Jr.”

“Hospitals get a reimbursement payment from the insurance system 3x larger when they put suspected covid patients on ventilators than when they don’t. Do you think that incentivizes them to use ventilators when they are not necessary?”Etc.

Have a few facts ready, roll them out in any opening, and remain calm. Watch people flounder, sputter and struggle to think of what to say. Avoid “It’s a scam!” and “Gates is evil!” and such. But “The Gates Foundation gave $210 million to WA U to build a ‘population studies’ center on campus. Why is bill Gates obsessed with global population? He said himself his father was head of Planned Parenthood.”Etc.

This is the way to engage. Never polarize. Stay out of taking a side, even mildly. Remain calm and never get offended, not matter what trolls say. Facts, facts, and innocent questions. Use every counter-point they make to give more facts. Let them come to the inescapable conclusion.

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How to Talk to People About COVID

It is best to assume everyone can learn and adjust their position on complex issues. 
It is best to remain calm and present certain facts and details we have memorized or can call up from memory, even in emotionally charged situations. 
It is best to meet people where they are at first, affirming and validating their feelings and views. Then present our own objectively. 
It is best to assume when people are upset and insistent, they are actually somewhat unsure of themselves and can be reached with reason. 
It is best not to present final conclusions, but to provide points between which others can draw the lines to see the picture, or present puzzle pieces and let them put them together to see the picture. 


I am resolved to stay calm, not shame anyone or become insistent, and attempt to persuade and convert, even if it appears a lost cause. I take the approach that people are suffering and afraid, and I can help them with gentle but clear reasoning. People who argue and insist are actually unsure of themselves, they are trying to boost their insecurity. This is an opening.
Here is a hypothetical possible scenario:


“Where’s your mask? You have to wear a mask!” 

I will start with validation and affirmation: “It seems you are upset. Perhaps you’re afraid. I can understand why. Is it of disease? Are you afraid that if we don’t comply the Governor will impose worse measures on us all?”

‘Yes! It’s dangerous to not wear a mask! People are dying!””I understand. The OHA just announced 2 more people died With COVID. One was 84 and one 72. Both had other health conditions. They call them ‘co-morbidities. Note that I said–“

‘That’s right! Old people are dying! Is’t tragic. We need to protect them.”

“The OHA said they died With COVID, not From COVID. The Case Fatality Rate is .26, and probably declining as they test more. Oregon–“

‘It’s a deadly pandemic! Just wear a mask! Stop acting so reckless.”

“The CDC has gone back and forth over the months, sometimes recommending masks for sick people only, sometimes for health workers only, sometimes only when in proximity to a sick person for over 30 minutes, or 10 minutes. The World Health Organization–“

“The Governor said we have to wear masks! Just do it!”

“The Governor issued a ‘Guidance’ statement through the OHA. No executive order has been issued requiring masks for the public entering indoor public spaces. It remains a recommendation. I choose not to follow it, and here’s why–“

“Well, I’m following it! I think you’re crazy and putting other people in danger.”

“A lot of scientific studies confirm that prolonged wearing of masks causes various health challenges, depending on the overall and specific health of the person. At least it can cause headaches and reduced work performance, reduced oxygen exchange and increased carbon dioxide build-up, known as hypoxia and hypocapnia, which contributes to inflammation and even cancer. At worst–“

“Then why are they telling us to wear masks? Everyone knows we’re supposed to. We’re in this together, except you.”

“Well, you might be surprised at how many people don’t wear masks, and why. But you ask a good question. Why are they–meaning the Governor and OHA–recommending we wear masks? They say it’s effective at preventing the spread of viruses, but is that true? Plenty of scientific studies have shown that simple cloth masks or even the N95 masks cannot contain particles as small as viruses. Did you know viruses are smaller than cells? They go right through and around masks.”

“Aha! This virus is not spread by airborne means. It is transferred through droplets projected by talking, coughing, sneezing, laughing, even just breathing. That’s why masks work. They stop the droplets.”

“Yes, I’ve heard that too. Would the droplets have to get into the other person’s mouth, nose, other orifice, in order to infect them? Would it be enough for it to land on their skin or even clothing to infect them? The CDC announced–I don’t know–a month ago that concerns about infection from droplets lingering on surfaces like door knobs, elevator buttons and railings or counters has been greatly reduced. A false fear.”

“So? Drops can still fly through the air and infect someone else. That’s why we have to stay 6 feet apart.”

“We can talk about the social distancing recommendation. But you asked why they want us to wear masks. Yours looks like a cloth mask. I’ve studied science that says bacteria can collect in the moist fabric of cloth masks from breathing and grow, making a cloth mask in particular a health risk to wear. If you are concerned about infection, prolonged use of a cloth mask can infect you as you breathe in these growing bacteria, and it can infect others. I’m not concerned to be near you with your cloth mask, because I support my overall immune health and believe the strength of the internal immune system is key to not getting sick. In this case, exposure to other people’s germs in the community is healthy and a boost to my immune system, contributing to community immunity. I’ve read that most people were exposed to this year’s flu strain well before they even started these aggressive lockdown measures. We might not need any of them. In fact it might impair–“

“I heard that too. But it’s still better safe than sorry. Old people are dying.”

“Hmm. It’s sad when people we love die. Old people always die at some point. If anything is really causing them to die sooner, is it really the COVID virus? I don’t think so. Other factors–“

“I know someone who’s father died. He tested positive for COVID. It killed him. My friend was heart-broken that she thought she might have given it to him, just by visiting him. I don’t want that.”

“Did he have any co-morbidities? Was he on any pharmaceutical drugs?”

“Well, he had heart problems and was on blood thinners. Something else too. What’s that cholesterol lowering drug?”

“Statins. Blood thinners have significant side effects with prolonged use, and Statins too. We should look them up, I don’t remember off-hand, but all pharmaceutical drugs are essentially toxic and cause side effects that can contribute to mortality. It’s called Iatrogenic, meaning caused by medical procedures or drugs. It may be the #1 cause of death in the US today.”

“No! That’s heart disease.”

“Not COVID?” Smile.

“Grr. Now you’re being dismissive. COVID is the biggest health problem we have today.”

“Is it? Children under 15 are far more likely to be struck by lightning than die of COVID. Why are there no school closures when there’s a forecast of a thunderstorm?”

Laughs. “That’s silly.”

“So is closing schools when children are the least likely to even get COVID, and almost none have died of it. But their health is greatly impaired by being separated from their peers and friends, and being stuck at home. I wonder how many have been injured or even killed by domestic violence, which is greatly increased during the lockdowns.”

“yeah, I heard something about that. Sad.”

“I want to return to something you asked. If masks don’t work and might even cause more disease, why are they telling us to wear them? I could try to provide some answer to that, but I don’t think you’d be open to it. (use reverse psychology, withhold information to make them want it) You tend to trust the Governor and OHA, right?”

“Well, who else am I going to trust? You? You’re no doctor or health expert.”

“That’s true. I am a person who devotes significant time and effort to my own research, and I could share some of my sources. Some people have theorized what the real reason might be that they are trying to make us wear masks.”

“Uh-oh. You’re going to go in to ‘conspiracy theories’.” Rolls eyes.

“I recently studied the book Virus Mania: How the Medical Industry Invents Epidemics, Making Billion Dollar Profits at Our Expense, by two German doctors and medical researchers. From that perspective and much else I’ve studied, I would now say that the COVID phenomenon is the conspiracy theory. Have you ever seen an electron microscope photograph of this ‘novel’ coronavirus?”

“Oh come on! You’re saying it doesn’t even exist?”

“I’m asking if you’ve seen a photograph of it. That is one of the primary ways virologists identify a new virus. I’ve not seen a photograph. If they had one, don’t you think it would be spread all over the news?”

“I’ve heard they genome sequenced it. Its DNA has been mapped and they know it’s a new virus. A deadly one.”

“Oh boy. The things I can tell you about the COVID genome sequence! But I don’t think you’re ready for that. I expect at some point you are going to ask me who ‘They’ are. Glad you asked. Do you want the short label, the one paragraph explanation, the one page report, the full 2000 word essay or a 200,000 word book?” (simple labels are easily dismissed, give a range of options)

“I don’t know. Their names are Anthony Fauci and– was it Ferguson? And– Bill Gates! The philanthropist. He’s been helping children in Africa with vaccines. And the WHO. That’s who.”

“Oh boy again. The things I could tell you about these people. Anthony Fauci and Debra Birx are the two main spokespeople for the President’s Corona Virus Response Task Force. They were both caught falsifying data about a vaccine they sold to the US army in 2007. (always give specific names and dates and places when possible. Facts stop fear and reach the thinking mind) They hid the significant side effects and results that showed it was less effective than they claimed. Some soldiers got sick from the vaccine. (appeal to compassion) These people are known medical fraudsters. (appeal to indignation) And Neil Ferguson has a long record of making wildly exaggerated predictions based on his faulty computer models. (historical context is often good)  He predicted 500,000 dead in the UK, and 2 million in the US. Soon after he reduced his prediction in the UK to 20,000, a factor of 25 times! Do you know how many ‘they’ say have died in the US with coronavirus (not necessarily From COVID)?”

“Yeah, it’s over 100,000.”

“I haven’t checked lately, it’s probably over 120,000. But for the sake of the math, let’s say 100,000, since some of these deaths are false positive tests, died of ‘co-morbidities’ not COVID, and others are ‘presumptive’ cases. That means they guess at the cause of death without a test result at all. (sow doubt of official ‘statistics’ without directly denouncing them) That means Ferguson’s prediction for the US was off by a factor of 20. 20 times wrong! If this guy was your financial advisor or tax accountant, you’d fire him immediately. We’ll leave out the fact that he was forced to resign because he was breaking his own social distancing guidelines by fooling around with his mistress, a married woman. (point out hypocrisy, more doubt of sources) ‘They’ probably wanted him out of the spotlight anyway.”

“Well– What about Gates? He’s spending his own fortune to help disadvantaged people around the world.”

“Bill Gates is now the world’s most hated philanthropist. (usually a mistake to make generalizations and labels, but we are building rapport and trust and this could be risked if we follow up with facts) I wrote two research articles on Gates myself. The more he gives away, the more he invests in the products that his philanthropy requires. Gates even gave a half million dollar grant to study how to change bio-ethics guidelines to make them more accepting of the medical procedures and technologies he invests in. His polio vaccine program over 16 years in India paralyzed a half million children, until the Indian government kicked him out. Gates even tried to prevent the children from getting care. His vaccine program in Kenya sterilized millions of otherwise fertile women, because the vaccine was laced with Human Corionic Gonadotropin, (good detail, know some words that sound scientific)  a drug that causes miscarriages. A Catholic doctors association got the vaccine and tested it, and every one they tested was found to contain HCG. The Kenyan government admitted the ‘mistake’, but I doubt the Gates Foundation did. I think they just pulled out, leaving millions of broken-hearted women and families who could no longer have children. Some philanthropist.”

“Hmm. I didn’t know that.”

“I learned it from Children’s Health Defense, an organization led by Robert Kennedy Jr. Nephew of JFK.” (start mentioning sources. do this multiple times, imprint on memory)

“I’ll be darned. I’ll need to read that myself. I’m not sure I believe it.”

“Yes, please read it yourself. Children’s Health Defense. Dot org I think. You can find it. You can read a lot there.”

“I’ll try. I usually get my news from the radio in the car. Or something I see on Facebook.” (resist temptation to denounce sources. Only address content)

“But let me tell you about Gates and Oregon. This guy is everywhere! I wrote an essay called Oregon Governor Advised by Bill Gates and Patent Lawyers. You see, the Oregon governor was basing her original ‘aggressive intervention’ measures on advice from a disease computer modeling center in WA state called the Institute for Disease Modeling. It’s funded almost entirely through something called the Global Good Fund. This organization gets all its funds from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. It also works closely with a for-profit bunch of patent attorneys and technology developers called Intellectual Ventures. Many of them are former Microsoft execs who worked with Gates there. They develop medical technology and other tech–like AI mass surveillance, advanced drone tech for crowd control, driverless cars, etc.–file patents, or buy other existing patents to gain a dominance of a tech sector, then sell the products or sometimes even sell the patent licenses. It’s big money for them, and Gates pushes the ‘philanthropy’ (make air quotes to show it’s dubious)  that helps sell the products. Gates also controls the disease computer modeling centers that spin out the hysterical doom predictions to frighten whole populations into buying the apocalyptic disease scenarios that sell his agenda. Like Oregon from the Institute for Disease Modeling. That’s not all, Gates also funded the founding of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluations, which advises the President’s Coronavirus Task Force and Council of Economic Advisors. Do you know who was on the founding Board of IHME?”

“Who? Gates?”

“Good guess. (compliment participation) But no, that would be too obvious. The current Director of the WHO, Tedros Adhenam Gebreheyes. The things we can say about him! (use ‘we’ when appropriate. build shared identification) He was the Health Minister of a communist country, Ethiopia. Do you trust communists? China is communist.”

“Wait a minute. You’re saying Gates is really a salesman? Not really doing philanthropy, but just selling his products and patents?”

(always welcome questions, even–especially–questions that sound like they think you can’t answer. Have answers ready)”Oh, it’s worse than that. I wonder if you’re ready for the full truth about Bill Gates.” (more withholding of information. Make them ask for it)

“He’s really a lizard alien shape shifter.” Peers and smirks.

Blinks and smiles. “That’s the British royal family. (meet sarcasm with sarcasm, never insult. Humor helps, then back to facts) No, Gates is on the record multiple times discussing his obsession with population control. He donated $210 Million to the U of WA to build a sub-campus devoted to human population studies.”

“Well, there are too many of us. It’s getting worse.”

“Do you think women in Africa should be sterilized without their knowledge or consent when they thought they were getting protection from disease?” (appeal to morality)

“Well no, but– I don’t know.”

“It’s complex isn’t it? (admit shared challenges, honor feelings) We don’t need to get into the abortion issue, but Gates’ father was a head of Planned Parenthood. He’s still on the Gates Foundation board. Some people think Planned Parenthood’s main mission is abortion and population control.”

“Abortion is good. My body my choice.”

“Yes, I agree. (express agreement. Be open to them influencing me on some points)  At least sometimes. But that should apply to vaccines too. (avoid tangents. steer back to the topic) But Gates wants to vaccinate the entire planet with his new COVID vax. He’s said this multiple times. And he wants to digitally track everyone to confirm their vaccine status. Chipping people in some way. Do you favor that?” (explore limits)

“Hell no. No one is putting a chip into my skull. Or wrist or anywhere.”

“They’re working to get the kids today to want it. Make it cool or something.” (know the audience. age specific appeal here)

“I know, my granddaughter thinks it’s cool.”

“Ugh. Look, we better move on with our day. (suggest time scarcity, appear to be a busy important person.) But let me try to answer the question, why are they really telling us to wear masks? This might be a stretch for you–” (honor their position) 

“It’ all been a stretch. Gates a ‘hated philanthropist'”?

“At least he’s not a lizard alien. But let’s think a minute. (appeal to reason. we’ve already established that we talk facts, so they will be expecting them) The lockdown measures are crushing primarily small and mid-sized businesses, but the big businesses are okay, some are even thriving more. We the People are required to stay at home, socially distance when in public, and wear masks. What are the result of these things? Add in no public gatherings anymore, do as much social interaction online as possible, schools and churches closed (but not Walmart), Amazon online buying is thriving, a lot of people are afraid to go near each other… Fear! Fear has been induced and stoked in the population. And isolation. It’s not just social distancing, it’s social isolation. We are being divided once again, this time even from people we normally have affinity with. Communities are being atomized. Everyone is being driven apart into their own separate little worlds. We can’t even see each other’s faces anymore!” (express some honest emotion at this point)

“So ‘they’ are breaking us apart so that– what? We can’t organize a revolt? A revolution?” (let them pose a conclusion) 

“Well, they organized a revolution against racism, right? How did that happen? But that’s a whole nother issue. Or is it? Anyway, I encourage you to check out Children’s Health Defense. (no tangents, back to topic) There’s a great deal more I could recommend, but much knowledge on this complex issue can be found there. I think you’ll respect it, it’s highly detailed and factual (subtle compliment, leading toward objectivity and out of emotion), though of course it contains some polemics (unusual words keep attention and build respect). It’s hard to stay entirely objective in it all, isn’t it?” (express empathy) 

“It sure is. I get pretty upset myself. I appreciate that you stayed pretty calm. Sorry if I was shouting. It’s so upsetting.”

“It’s okay. I understand. I think ‘they’ want us upset. (suggest solidarity)  It’s harder to think. I try to look into the facts and explore details past the headlines. I’m glad I could share some of it with you. (gratitude for the conversation)  You could also read Oregon Governor Advised by Bill Gates and Patent Attorneys. Here, let me write a couple things down for you to search out.”scribbles on paper. (good to be prepared with materials. Some situations could involve pre-printed materials)

“Good talking with you. Stay safe!” Smiles, gestures at head. “Safe in our knowledge.” (leave them laughing) 

Shakes head. Mask is drooping off nose. “Okay. I’m not convinced, you know.”

“Good! You shouldn’t be convinced by a short conversation with a stranger. Or a headline or radio news report. We have to study deeper.” (affirm their skepticism. also raises doubts about their own sources)

“I’ll try.”

“There’s so much to learn. Happy learning! The truth will set us free–of masks!” (affirm my position, make it the last point, make it light-hearted) Wave and walk away. (try to be the one to end the conversation, as if I am less attached than they are. Meaning, more confident)


I don’t mean to be cynical or maliciously calculating with these suggestions. I firmly trust my knowledge and my objectives are morally good. I sincerely want to help people come to a better understanding of the issue, for their benefit and for all of ours. These are simply my best current understanding for how to achieve the worthy goal of educating others to crucial knowledge that will help us all. Otherwise we too easily fall into confrontations, with mutual hatred, contempt, accusation, derision, and dismissal. That is what the Dividers and Conquerors want of us. Calm, compassion, persistence, knowledge, appeal to a common humanity, shared alignment, and gentle persuasion are our best strategies for reaching people.